It was the land of the free before a moment in history where this guy found the americas which resulted in mass genocide of a giant continent. He may not have been in what is now known as the USA but his discovery sure was the start of the end of the free world. But at least US Americans are still free to celebrate the genocide their ancestors committed during Thanksgiving while their tax dollars go to weapons sent to be used in the current genocide in Gaza.
Was it? The first European settlers found native villages that were surrounded by palisades. There was plenty of conflict before the Europeans got there.
If you look at the various conflicts between 1600 and 1900 or so, youāll see itās always some European group with a list of Native groups supporting them vs. some other European group with their own different set of Native groups.
Of course not. In the same sense that you were not romanticizing the war between empires. The Incas for example were able to dominate a lot of land. The greed was there. To understand we are humans, we need to admit even the parts that put us to shame. Only from recognizing shortcomings we can build something better. And itās not like humans are always greedy, survival of the strongest, yada yada. Thatās an oversimplification that some build over this fact (itās their agenda.), that we are not perfect. But itās not an essentialism, we can be better.
Anyway, sorry I ended up ranting off topic. Glad to share.
Hey, the USA is a form of evil, terrorises smaller countries into submission while creating retaliatory fighters like Al Qaeda, and clogs the radiowaves of the world with its news and politics as if itās the only important entity, but it commonly celebrates Arbor Day, and I think thatās pretty neat
America (used to, at least) seems āfreeā because the people coming to the US are usually from even worse countries. If they were from a functional democracy, they probably wouldnāt wanna go to the US in the first place. I mean, I highly doubt a Canadian, or EU Citizen would wanna live in the US.
āWeāre less shittyā just doesnāt have a ring to it.
The US had a massively growing economy for more than a century compared to other countries, and was pretty much war-free for the most part. A huge draw for people who were poor and had little hope in classist Europe. Yeah, the growing US engaged in a lot of fighting, but it wasnāt like Europe where a war with your neighboring country destroyed your food production and plunged the economy into chaos or something.
Iāll quibble over that detail a little. Immigrants that were technically white like Irish were discriminated against. Also, even if you were non-white at the time like Italian you still could have a better shot at a better quality of life than you might have had in the old country.
I mean, they were white by our modern standards but if you read writing at the time, the Irish, Italians, Greeks, etc were often not referred to or considered to be white.
Really depends on how you define āfreeā. Immigration is rarely spurred by people wanting more individual rights, most of the times people migrate for economic opportunities. Thatās not really dependent on government type, or individual rights, itās usually more dependent on macroeconomics, timing/opportunity, and exploitation.
America used to be more free in the libertarian sense, in which the government has less opportunities to opress you if you were from a class/race that could afford legal representation. However, corporations were/are free to opress the population to an extent that other oprresive governments would be jealous of.
That is the tradeoffā¦.. The government may restrict the Internet in a more direct way in China, but similar things have happened in the US.
Advertising companies and server cost have vicariously limited the scope of what we are allowed access on the internet. Internet sites that are deemed to be un safe for advertising are removed from search engines or denied hosting. Thatās happened over the course of a decade and now the government is taking a direct hand in censorship.
Sooā¦ Itās kinda hard to say which is more free if we account for the private sector removing choice for their own benefit. We just donāt take to account what private companies do to us as removing our freedoms, even though it restricts is in more definitive ways.
Just look at healthcare in the US being used as a form of indentured servitude, where you may be gambling with your very well being if you want to change your job.
Just look at healthcare in the US being used as a form of indentured servitude, where you may be gambling with your very well being if you want to change your job.
Yes, healthcare situation sucks in the US.
But, my parents had Taishan (rural) Hukou and they worked in Guangzhou (urban-city). And they werenāt allowed to access any of Guangzhouās benefits (in which there werenāt even much of at the time). I was born in Guangzhou, but I was not legally considered a å¹æå·äŗŗ, my Hukou Location is inherited from parents, Taishan. Its very ironic that its practically impossible to change the Hukou to Guangzhou, meanwhile its easier to obtain foreign citizenship. I wasnāt allowed in Guangzhouās public schools. (many migrant parents paid out of pocket for privately-run schools thatās inferior to the public schools) Literally a whole population of second-class residents. You can have family live in Guangzhou for generations, but it doesnāt matter, you are never really part of them, legally speaking. Often times, children get left behind in their village while the parents worked in the city. see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-behind_children_in_China
People moved to the US because, prior to 2025 at least, it used to be much easier than places like Europe, for example. I mean, some people already have relatives here in the US, much easier to acclimate.
Well, pre-Trump I would. Itās a heaven for senior software engineers and the healthcare insurance is mostly comparable with what I have in my EU country.
The phrase is, ādidnāt use to be.ā The word āwerenātā would be correct had he been responding to āI was freeā, but he is responding to āI use to be freeā, so ādidnātā is correct.
Keyboard Vagabond
slothrop
Well no, but you can imagine what itād be like, amiright?
They kind of let us LARP for a bunch of years.
Yeah, if you were white, cis, and hetero.
Def white, cis, hetero.
I think you could still get away with being just above food-stamp levels of poor in the 70ās-00ās and get to LARP as if you had rights.
It was free, before Columbus arrived.
Did Columbus ever go to what is now the USA?
He might have gone to Puerto Rico
It was the land of the free before a moment in history where this guy found the americas which resulted in mass genocide of a giant continent. He may not have been in what is now known as the USA but his discovery sure was the start of the end of the free world. But at least US Americans are still free to celebrate the genocide their ancestors committed during Thanksgiving while their tax dollars go to weapons sent to be used in the current genocide in Gaza.
Was it? The first European settlers found native villages that were surrounded by palisades. There was plenty of conflict before the Europeans got there.
If you look at the various conflicts between 1600 and 1900 or so, youāll see itās always some European group with a list of Native groups supporting them vs. some other European group with their own different set of Native groups.
Are you saying some tribes having a fight over some land is similar to the genocide?
Of course not. In the same sense that you were not romanticizing the war between empires. The Incas for example were able to dominate a lot of land. The greed was there. To understand we are humans, we need to admit even the parts that put us to shame. Only from recognizing shortcomings we can build something better. And itās not like humans are always greedy, survival of the strongest, yada yada. Thatās an oversimplification that some build over this fact (itās their agenda.), that we are not perfect. But itās not an essentialism, we can be better.
Anyway, sorry I ended up ranting off topic. Glad to share.
Deleted by moderator
Land of the trees and home of the knave
Hey, the USA is a form of evil, terrorises smaller countries into submission while creating retaliatory fighters like Al Qaeda, and clogs the radiowaves of the world with its news and politics as if itās the only important entity, but it commonly celebrates Arbor Day, and I think thatās pretty neat
America (used to, at least) seems āfreeā because the people coming to the US are usually from even worse countries. If they were from a functional democracy, they probably wouldnāt wanna go to the US in the first place. I mean, I highly doubt a Canadian, or EU Citizen would wanna live in the US.
āWeāre less shittyā just doesnāt have a ring to it.
The US had a massively growing economy for more than a century compared to other countries, and was pretty much war-free for the most part. A huge draw for people who were poor and had little hope in classist Europe. Yeah, the growing US engaged in a lot of fighting, but it wasnāt like Europe where a war with your neighboring country destroyed your food production and plunged the economy into chaos or something.
As long as you were white.
Iāll quibble over that detail a little. Immigrants that were technically white like Irish were discriminated against. Also, even if you were non-white at the time like Italian you still could have a better shot at a better quality of life than you might have had in the old country.
I mean, they were white by our modern standards but if you read writing at the time, the Irish, Italians, Greeks, etc were often not referred to or considered to be white.
The Irish were also literally fleeing a genocide.
Which I already offered the explanation that they were technically white while not darker skinned like some italians yet still prejudiced against. Ok?
Really depends on how you define āfreeā. Immigration is rarely spurred by people wanting more individual rights, most of the times people migrate for economic opportunities. Thatās not really dependent on government type, or individual rights, itās usually more dependent on macroeconomics, timing/opportunity, and exploitation.
America used to be more free in the libertarian sense, in which the government has less opportunities to opress you if you were from a class/race that could afford legal representation. However, corporations were/are free to opress the population to an extent that other oprresive governments would be jealous of.
I mean, for one, the internet is much less restrictive.
Much more content I can access compared toā¦ China, where I was born.
Although, nowadays with the āage verificationā stuff being proposed in many states, its kinda worrying for the future.
That is the tradeoffā¦.. The government may restrict the Internet in a more direct way in China, but similar things have happened in the US.
Advertising companies and server cost have vicariously limited the scope of what we are allowed access on the internet. Internet sites that are deemed to be un safe for advertising are removed from search engines or denied hosting. Thatās happened over the course of a decade and now the government is taking a direct hand in censorship.
Sooā¦ Itās kinda hard to say which is more free if we account for the private sector removing choice for their own benefit. We just donāt take to account what private companies do to us as removing our freedoms, even though it restricts is in more definitive ways.
Just look at healthcare in the US being used as a form of indentured servitude, where you may be gambling with your very well being if you want to change your job.
Yes, healthcare situation sucks in the US.
But, my parents had Taishan (rural) Hukou and they worked in Guangzhou (urban-city). And they werenāt allowed to access any of Guangzhouās benefits (in which there werenāt even much of at the time). I was born in Guangzhou, but I was not legally considered a å¹æå·äŗŗ, my Hukou Location is inherited from parents, Taishan. Its very ironic that its practically impossible to change the Hukou to Guangzhou, meanwhile its easier to obtain foreign citizenship. I wasnāt allowed in Guangzhouās public schools. (many migrant parents paid out of pocket for privately-run schools thatās inferior to the public schools) Literally a whole population of second-class residents. You can have family live in Guangzhou for generations, but it doesnāt matter, you are never really part of them, legally speaking. Often times, children get left behind in their village while the parents worked in the city. see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-behind_children_in_China
People moved to the US because, prior to 2025 at least, it used to be much easier than places like Europe, for example. I mean, some people already have relatives here in the US, much easier to acclimate.
Well, pre-Trump I would. Itās a heaven for senior software engineers and the healthcare insurance is mostly comparable with what I have in my EU country.
Land of āFree Willy,ā maybe.
Also no.
FINE GOOD EVERYBODY BACK ON THE BUS.
*No you werenāt
Well you can imagine what it would be like if we were the land of the free at least
Werenāt*
The phrase is, ādidnāt use to be.ā The word āwerenātā would be correct had he been responding to āI was freeā, but he is responding to āI use to be freeā, so ādidnātā is correct.
āYou werenāt the land of the freeā is much more elegant than āyou didnāt used to be the land of the freeā
Deleted by moderator